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RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

Rootie — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:37:09 GMT

Quote - DataDan: "I scored 60 on the quiz. Like the quizzes in Cosmo that your wife/gf uses to figure out whether you're cheating on her, the main purpose is to present a laundry list of risks in a way that engages readers more actively than does a simple recitation..."

I took the quiz also. Guess what I found out? My bike is cheating on me!

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 12:43:06 GMT

A sort of revival for this thread. While casting about in the book for a controversial topic and trying to avoid being really picky, I refer to page 145 "Converving Traction".

There is a nice head-on pic of a rider traversing a slippery incline. The 'street/touring' bike is leaned such that the wheels remain perpendicular to the riding surface. The rider is counter-balancing the bike with his body to the up-hill side of the bike. The incline is slippery with OIL.

The incline is not so steep that counterbalancing would require the rider to stand to get effective weight out where it needs to be. Nor does counterbalancing from the seat look like the downhill foot has to be lifted from the peg.

Mr. Hough says, "If the tires do slide, the bike can slide sideways with less risk of falling down. It's the same tactic that's used for riding across a patch of wet grass, glare ice, or loose gravel on a surface that isn't level."

My contentions:

- Gravel is different. There is enough widespread problems with gravel that I dont even want to address the issue here. If Mr. Hough means that the gravel is on a hard surface, then we have the 'marbles' effect. If the gravel is loose but deep, the tire will settle into it and not tend to slip down slope so much. So let's skip gravel for the time being.

- Modern street tires are so smooth and devoid tread pattern that there is very little they can do to cut any real edge through oil, glare ice, and wet grass to conserve traction.

- The technique might be useful if the tires had a ribbed tread on the front and a universal block pattern on the rear as in days of olde.

- My modern(?) 95 trident weighing 600+ lbs w/gear and then adding my corpulant heft is a bear off pavement. Even though I am well practiced in the technique, my modern bike really doesnt respond well. My 425lb antique isnt much better with its modern street tires compared to the Dunlops of olde. Granted, the dunlops of olde were terrible on the street compared to a modern tire.

- This technique is so equipment sensitive that I would tell a noob that it's good to learn, but not to rely on it very much. This technique needs a very large disclaimer/grain of salt explanation.

Your observations and rejoinders please, O For'm Members.

Edit: I note that Stoner dropped his bike in a low speed gravel trap at Leguna Seca today. Granted, he was on race slicks and the sand was soft. I contend that even if he had some rain grooves in the tires that the result would have been the same. His bike was basicly verticle. But the front wheel plowed and turning the forks made no difference. Even keeping such a bike upright on grass would have been very difficult and still make one's way back to the pavement.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:13:10 GMT

I read a sort of disconnect between "Emergency Reactions" and "emergency maneuvers"

Does DH clearly draw a line of reasoning that practicing various skills innures us to typical emergency reactions? When surprised or startled by an emergency, many people freeze for a length of time. That would account for riders doing nothing in an accident scenario. Even riders with a lot of training/practice may be frozen long enough to have dire consequenses.

Lets say that we practice hard braking as our first reaction to any emergency. Thus, it will be difficult for us not to react with braking in an emergency. At that point, wont it still be a sort of luck of the draw that the braking reaction will be the correct thing to do.

Working on our skills is the easy part. How do we work on the correct 'reaction'?

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

rw2000 — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 20:17:28 GMT

[quote]ibafran (6/17/2008)

Back on page 33, under "Emergency Reactions Follow Habits" DH writes, "...there aren't really any emergency maneuvers you can pull out of your bag of tricks when something goes wrong. There are only proficient control skills you can practice every day as you ride along."

Anybody feel uncomfortable with that statement/opinion? Anybody got an alternative or varying opinion?

If a biker was to have an "emergency maneuver", what might that be and what part of it makes it 'emergency'?

If you think that DH is dead-on correct, you can post that too.[/quote]

That goes along with the idea that motorcycle riders must complete all crash avoidance procedures within two or three seconds of becoming aware of the threat.

Doesn't give much time to "analyze."

Simplest example I can think of is being consistent and using both brakes in "most" situations, instead of just the front one because it's easier. With my bike, the rear brake significant decreases front end dive. It also means that in an emergency, more often than not, the rear brake is going to be used correctly, as will the front brake. It's a conditioned response.

This is why forming good habits is very important.

The only thing I can say contrary to his opinion is in sizing up a possible threat in the longer term. A real life example is, on a freeway you are overtaking traffic and, one lane over about 200 yards ahead you see a heavy pickup truck tailgating traffic ahead of him. Since you're in the left hand lane with no escape if he swerves into your lane, you slow down. Then you look in your rear view to make sure no one is tailgating YOU, because this could lead to a crash. Sure enough, you see traffic in the SOB's lane slowing abruptly. You brake gently to slow down a bit, as you know what's coming. Tailgater is fixated on the bumper ahead of him, and he doesn't pay attention beyond the car in front of him. At the last second he's forced to slam on the brakes. But HE pulls a rabbit out of his hat--he's smart enough to release the brakes, and swerve into the lane--the one where you would have been had you not paid attention and given yourself some room. (True story)

But I don't think this is what Hough is trying to say. I think he's saying that you often won't have time to think about your response, so you should form good habits as the automatic response may be what saves you.

I found another interesting tidbit in the NHTSA report for 2005. It said that 61% of the properly licensed riders who were killed that year had no previous conviction for any traffic offense. Over half of the fatalities without a motorcycle endorsement also had NO traffic convictions. Strange. Life is not so predictable as it seems.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:26:01 GMT

Anybody feel uncomfortable with that statement/opinion? Anybody got an alternative or varying opinion?

If a biker was to have an "emergency maneuver", what might that be and what part of it makes it 'emergency'?

If you think that DH is dead-on correct, you can post that too.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:03:48 GMT

Somehow, I knew that you would be able to quote Tony Foal, DataDan.

Apparently, I am blown out of the water on this one.

I am surprised others didnt jump on this error. Now that this error is apparent, I guess that I can't have fun with "Mass Shift".

Ya think anybody on this forum got excited and measured their own bikes? One of the great aspects of PM is that we have bikes at hand and can check stuff for ourselves.

A proficient rider tends to understand a great deal about the motorcycle and how it is supposed to function. That understanding is best when it comes from the rider's hands-on checking for himself. That direct experience armors the rider against the mis-statements and errors of others. And the rider's self confidence is correctly enhanced at the same time that his self doubt is banished. All of which takes time. And each of us has out own route to proficiency.

Your perspective that DH mixes arcane details with basic MSF instruction is spot on. I can see how upsetting that might be to some readers of the book. Yet some students like to know about the what&why that instruction is based on. I dislike rote instruction as the only fare to learning. Getting the balance is pretty hard to do.

Even the great MCNews gets it backwards every once in a great while. Tony Foal had to clarify some confusion about Dan Gurney's Alligator lean angle a while back. I expected a hailstorm of letters about that error from the proficient riders/readers of the rag. Alas, it was a weak hailstorm. Proficient riders/readers of MCNEWS are happy to forgive the occasional error. But, we are not about to forget nor forego a chance to tease each other about our humanity.

Thanx for the fun, DataDan.I had hoped a few more would join in. We seem to be the only ones consistantly awake on this thread. Although, I am pleased that the view count continues to grow. We have some sort of audience. A participatory audience would be more fun.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

DataDan — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:43:37 GMT

IMHO, David Hough's Proficient Motorcycling, along with the sequel More Proficient Motorcycling and Street Strategies, are the best riding skills books available.

Glancing at the bookshelf behind my desk, I count 18 books about riding that I have bought and read over the past 25 years or so. Many are dedicated to better lap times or to the finer details sportriding. But for getting from Point A to Point B safely and confidently via public roads, Hough's are the best.

The main thing that distinguishes Hough from the rest is his focus on street riding. While I'm mainly a sport rider, the fact is that most of my riding--most of everyone's riding--is in traffic on public roads. I recently analyzed fatal sportbike crashes in the SF Bay Area and found that only a few occurred on the twisty rural two-lane roads that are sought after by sport riders. Most were in situations where a cruiser, a tourer, or a scooter would be just as likely to crash. The rider error that caused or contributed to the crash didn't have anything to do with esoteric issues such as line selection, body position, push-vs-pull countersteering, or trail braking. Rather, the riders made basic mistakes such as poor judgment when passing, failing to maintain control on a straight section of road, not anticipating other motorists' actions.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

DataDan — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:35:45 GMT

ibafran wrote:

Tony Foal, where are you when I need you most?

From Foale and Willoughby, Motorcycle Chassis Design (Osprey 1984, out of print):

With a normal motorcycle (i.e., with positive trail) held vertically, the steering head will drop as we turn the handlebar to either side... The greater the rake angle, the greater the drop...
This drop tends to work against the self-centering effect of castor because, to return deflected steering to the straight-ahead position, we must lift the considerable weight supported by the steering head. While this effect is detrimental to balance (hence another reason why trials bikes have steep head angles), and to directional stability while travelling in a straight line, it helps to steer the wheel into a corner when banked over, thus reinforceing the self steering effect of trail mentioned earlier.

One of my complaints about Proficient Motorcycling is chapter organization. Chapter 2, Motorcycle Dynamics, includes both arcane details of steering geometry, such as you cite, and practical instruction on steering skills. Keeping in mind readers, purpose, and use, I would expect many readers to look for cornering technique in a dedicated chapter. Embedding it with the background theoretical material makes it harder to find, and it also gives the reader the impression that he's got to understand chassis geometry before he can steer a motorcycle.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:57:50 GMT

Heads up!!!

Now that you know about steering head rise and fall, anybody want to trust "Mass Shift" on pages 42 and 43?

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 19:46:14 GMT

Here is a good example of error that we can bat around:

Page 42, "Steering head Rise and Fall"

DH says that the steering head rises and falls when the bars are turned. "When you turn away from center, the steering head drops. When you turn back to center, the steering head rises."

I invite all our honorable forum participants to check their bikes to confirm this for themselves. Except for some radical chopper front ends, nearly all bikes will have the low point of the steering head occur at center. (Oh, Tony Foal, where are you when I need you most?) Because radiators, tupperware, front wheel & mud guard can make this measurement so difficult, try bringing the steering head cap nut under the garage door header. Measure from the top of the cap to the door header when the bars are centered and again when the bars are at full lock. If the low spot for the steering head isnt dead center, post up the make, model and year of that bike. (Edit; Drat. I forgot about hub-steering bikes. I dont know if the steering head changes on those bikes. Nor am I familiar with BMW's telelever system. Earle's Leading Link designs may differ too. The above observations ought to hold true for standard telescopic forks.)

While all y'all are at it, check all the two wheelers in your stable and let us know if you have any ordinary bicycles that are similar. Dont forget to check the scooters.

I believe DH got this steering head rise/fall bit bass-ackwards. One of the reasons the bike's bars tend to self center is that the steering head is lowest at that point betwwen the stops.

I predict that steep raked sportbikes will have as little as 1/4 inch rise/fall difference. While cruisers may be as much as an inch difference. Standards will be near a half inch. Dirt bikes will have the most variance. Yet all bikes will have the low points of steering head fall at centered bars. (Home-built extended telescopic front ends will be different, or tend that way.)

This could be a two or three person job for those of us with luxo-potomuses. Keep in mind that this is a difficult measurement to take. Repeat your efforts. Get any assistants to take measurements too. Dont tell your assistants what the measurements should be. Let them do it blind.

Page 41 top. Page 40 bottom: DH writes about "hands-off riding".

If the bike naturally wanted to turn because "Gravity actually helps turn the front end away from center and resists the front end returning to center. (Page 42); riding "Hands-off" would be near impossible.

If the steering head did not drop when the bars are centered, there would be no other place of stability except at one or the other fork stop.

I can see why many riders do not understand how the bike's geometry works. The riders' eyes glaze over due to this unfathomable inconsistancy. And they move on to more understandable things. And they never trust themselves to speak of these things. (Edit; If I told you that you could climb a slight slope on a standard bicycle using nothing but a little body weight shift and waggling the forks from side to side, would you believe me? Modern fork geometry permits this. When two or more bicyclists know this, they can race each other up garage ramps using the technique. Very strenuous and screaming good fun.)

That steering stuff is pretty hard core mechanics. The mensa masters around here will have a field day with me if I got this wrong.

(Edit: page 40; DH covers his butt with a sort of disclaimer that his understanding of bike machanics is based on 30+ years of arm-waving discussions and napkin scribblings. Its not like the hard data/science wasnt available at the time? Thus DH offers us his OPINION of how things really are. Do you think that DH did any checking for himself on his own bike before commiting such opinions to print?)

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 19:52:55 GMT

Thanx for checking in, DataDan. I know that you keep an eye on us. Your visit count is nearly as great as my own. Your posts are most timely and worth waiting for.

I thought DH lived in the great northwet on a mountain. Having never visited the area, I have no idea how tough a rideing environment it might be. Chicagoland can be very tough. the conjestion and bustle of the inner city has its own challenges. And those challenges swiftly change to the widespread cager carelessness and lassitude of the suburbs. At the time of his writing, DH was worried that he might be overstating all the challenges of a particular riding scenario. My thought was that it may no longer be an overstatement in many places.

I am surprised that you scored a 60. I would have wagered that you would have been closer to 80+ than myself. It would make a pretty good study to know what quiz questions give such scores to riders that fall in the mid range. I would have no idea how to construct a meaningful poll for us.

Thanx for clearing up the perspective on the "odds" measurement of risk. I suspect many riders read the odds and apply them to their riding so that they dont have to think about many risks anymore. Riders do ATGATT and wear the most conspicuous stuff possibe figuring that its all they can do. Thus they relieve themselves of that continuous concern. So, such riders stay lined up in their lane following traffic becoming effectively camoflaged because they are not seen as moving against a static background. I think later in the book DH will say that riders should stay in a particular lane position unless required to deviate from it. I will maintain that it could very well be much better for riders to switch position in lane with enough frequency just to keep nearby traffic aware of them. I dont doubt the importance of knowing the odds. I seriously doubt the wisdom of making riding judgements based on the odds and expecting the odds to hold true.

Here is an example of my favorite odds. Everyone knows that coin flips (fairly) work out to a 50/50 ratio heads/tails. Rarely does anyone know when a string of one or the other shows up for 7 in a row. Nor how to predict when that is going to happen. Be very very careful of the odds and what one does with them.

I very much thank you for your timely sagacity. Let us hope that other participants will take note. I hope that other valid perspectives will be added. Certainly, a truely proficient rider will be aware of nearly all worthwhile perspectives.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

DataDan — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:36:41 GMT

Sorry for not getting here sooner, Fran. I check Safety and Legislative Issues about once a month, which is about the frequency of new posts.

I'm not going to address your complaints about Hough's two-page introduction, the purpose of which is to connect with his readers and to lay out in a general way what he hopes the book will do. Frankly, I had never more than skimmed it. However, I will say, that, IIRC, Hough commutes by motorcycle in the Seattle area.

As to the brake pads, now I have to go out and attempt a stoppie on my RC30 with its 18-year-old pads to see if I can still do one.

I scored 60 on the quiz. Like the quizzes in Cosmo that your wife/gf uses to figure out whether you're cheating on her, the main purpose is to present a laundry list of risks in a way that engages readers more actively than does a simple recitation. Unless it has been tested by correlating test scores to actual crash experience, scores should be taken with a grain of salt. The introspection it promotes--how long has it been since I've taken a riding course?--is the real value.

The "odds" thing--quantitative measures of risk--is intended to inform riding judgment, not to replace it. I suspect that most new riders are unaware of the frequency of left-turning-car crashes. Knowing that they comprised 28% of the crashes Hurt investigated simply raises the level of awareness in those situations. It can't tell a rider whether the vehicle is going to turn. Hough barely mentions statistics after Chapter 1.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

sv650 — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:32:34 GMT

[quote]ibafran (6/12/2008)

OK. Here is one that is not so opinionated.

Page 35; "Brake pads get hard with age."

I would like to think that I would wear out my brake pads from useage gefore the get "hard with age".

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

braindead0 — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:55:01 GMT

[quote]ibafran (6/12/2008)

OK. Here is one that is not so opinionated.

Page 35; "Brake pads get hard with age."
[/quote]An excellent example. It's stated as fact, and you'd think someone would have the definitive answer on it.

I've never heard of that happening, but I believe the pad materials are held together with a resin. Most resins will age to some degree and become brittle. I would be surprised if that would be any concern under normal conditions however.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:47:36 GMT

OK. Here is one that is not so opinionated.

Page 35; "Brake pads get hard with age."

I never heard of that happeneing. My guess is that its a momentary example of poor phrasing. Brake pads will glaze on occasion. The glaze is hard to wear through. It is better to remove glazed pads and scuff the glaze off. The glaze prevents good friction. Pads will perform better if they are not glazed. Anybody glaze a set of pads recently?

New brake material, pads and shoes, take about 250 urban miles to mate with rotors and drums. Hard break-in usage on new pads might glaze 'em.

I cant imagine brake pads getting significantly harder just sitting in the garage? (EDIT; I just went out to ther garage and took a rasp to an old brake pad. the rasp seemed to cut just fine. A hack saw cut into the old pad just about like a new one. If the pad was work hardened, it didnt feel much different. Who knows what PM means?)

Normally, I would let such trivia slide by while looking for bigger problems. But, if this kind of stuff is what it takes to get the ball rolling here... Maybe something will come up later in the book. Anybody drag out their copy for a re-read just for this thread?

Thanx, braindead0, for the input. I note that the visits jumped up since you got here. The BRC used to be pretty good long ago. It got dumbed down a bit after 1885. My congratz to the Missus. I hope she gets the hots for bikes because of the immense satisfaction of completing the BRC.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

braindead0 — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:11:21 GMT

Perhaps PM has too much opinion for the experienced rider. I still recommend it to everyone, and I learned about a few things that I did unconsciously (for example, using power poles/lines to help judge a curve over a hill). My wife took the BRC last week, and I found more problems with that than any of the opinions on PM.

I think I'll have to read it again before I can add anything useful to this thread. It's been at least a year.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:21:37 GMT

Welcome to the forum, braindead0.

I am honored that your first post was to this thread. (Deep bow here) Thanx.

ALL:

I find PM littered with opinions. Some of them ring true with my own experience. Some of them are more dischordant. Forum participants are invited to list their own observations regarding anything in PM.

Is the best part of biking, the reward of biking, "immense satisfaction"? It isnt for me. And there are no other posts to give a better perspective.

Maybe the best part of biking is the small carbon footprint and the moral high ground of the fuel sipping tiddlers?

Hough does use the word, "Joys" in the preface. I was hoping someone would catch my glaring 'error'. And we could discuss the importance of joy in motorcycling. It would interesting to note if 'joy' ever comes up in the book thereafter?

I dont like trusting any authority either. Yet Hough has complete faith that the Hurt Report is accurate to his needs. I remind all that Genesis and Leviticus were the best available at that time. Hough lets a Road Rider Survey (p.27) lend some support to his opinions. Fortunately, DataDan has a nice collection of studies that dont deviate from Hurt very much. I think that I have to let Hurt go untouched for the purposes of this thread.

PM is on the line here. Feel free to gush and quote the best parts. And moan about the worst of the warts. Wisteria at the rest is fine with me. I note that there are very few sig lines on motorcycle forums quoting PM.

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

braindead0 — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:11:45 GMT

Perhaps nobody is biting because it's not possible to debate opinions? Most of these particular statements from PM are subjective in nature ('acceptable','joy','likely'..etc).

This looks like a statement of fact:

p.11 paragraph 1. "It includes the core knowledge and skills that a proficient motorcyclist should possess."

I don't think it is. 'core' and 'proficient' are not defined in solid enough terms to make this a statement of fact (I believe).

I'm not sure where you expect this thread to go. The above quote could be 'tackled' if first it's terms are more clearly defined. That would perhaps be a place to start.

I have no blind trust in any authority, so if you've disagreed with anything stated as fact in PM... I'd love to discuss that. Not sure that going after any of the quotes in your first posting would be productive though.

My copy of PM is out on loan for now, so I can't take the test again ;-)

RE: The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:27:36 GMT

Just as I suspected. Nobody is going for this thread. The sacred cow remains untouched. I am gratified that the thread got a few visits.

There is a quiz on page 28/29. It is supposed to help the reader/rider descern how much risk exposure is prevalent. I re-examined myself today and scored myself as brutally as possible less I fool myself more than usual. Plato wrote, "The unexamined life is not worth living." My corrolary is, "The examined life may not be much better."

I scored a 68. (+80 is better. -40 is...marginal? Too dangerous?)

Earlier (p.22, par 4) "After all, part of the thrill of motorcycling is challenging the odds." I am glad that 'thrill' is now in play. On my way to achieving some sort of Motorcycling Joy, thrill is better than satisfaction. If I am fortunate, 'satisfaction' is what remains after the 'thrill' is gone.

Anybody have reservations about 'odds'? Indiana Jones as well as other characters has remarked, "Never tell me the odds." As I face my riding scenario, I am not figuring 'odds'. Its more of a feeler gauge thing. It feels like I am making a "Go/No Go" judgement. Digitally, it would be expressed as 1/0? Odds are what is calculated after the collection of data. Judgement is what is used to decide an immediate course of action during the ride. The odds that I will negotiate edge traps are pretty good given past data. My judgement about negotiating today's particular edge trap is based on Yoda's, "Do, or not do. there is no try." ( Pardon the heavy use of declaritive sentences. Everything is up for discussion. Each sentence can be attacked more easily if it is short and to the point.)

The Magnificent Hough Thread

ibafran — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 18:34:15 GMT

DataDan (6/2/2008)[hr ...I do hope you'll post some of your disagreements with Hough. Not because I find a lot to disagree with, but just to stoke some discussion in this otherwise somnolent forum.

Thus goaded from another thread, I rise from my slumbers to see if anyone is willing to critique, apologise, or rhapsodize over the the premier street riding safety tome of our times. I mean no disrespect toward Mr. Hough. Indeed, I would be honored if he made an appearence at this thread because something caught his interest.

I will be refering to the original book. If others are using a later edition, please make that clear. It is understood that all quotes will be from the original. To keep quotes to a minimum length, maybe include a page number. The page number can be used to read the wider context at home or work as necessary. Forum participants are highly encouraged to particpate as best as they can. The book is not mandatory to the fun of honorable discourse laced with humor. zzzzz Uh?! Sorry, nodded off there for a bit.

Sources other than Mr Hough ought to be about something found in PM. It would amaze me if someone found a quote from Mr. Rau that contradicted Mr. Hough's PM. Lets try to stay on target. Thread drift occurs. We can drift back if we want.

My regets for my ham-fisted typing and fuzzy thinking.

Here is some stuff to get us started:

I blew off the preface because it was history and in my convenience to do so. If someone finds a point of interest there, they should bring it up.

-P.10 end of first paragraph, "In my opinion, it is possible to reduce the risks of motorcycling to an acceptable level."

In my opinion, the key word is 'acceptable'. Depending on my skill level for conditions, many risks are no-way acceptable to me. Just because I do everything possible to minimize risk short of not riding doesnt mean that the risk becomes acceptable.

Note that there is no reference to a person who is accepting biker risks. There are a lot of people who would not like to accept biker risk at any level. Parents and spouses as well as civic minded and meddling fools.

-P.10 end of paragraph 2; "The big payoff is that becoming a proficient motorcyclist is immensely satisfying."

Immensely satisfying is nice but falls way short of my desires. Immensely satisfying would be actually having my garage cleaned out. A task so onerous as to make the Labors of Hercules pale to insignificance. Despite the Rolling Stones quest for satisfaction, immensely satisfying just doesnt cut it. When on my bike, I am searching for a moment of joy. I want to be exillerated while riding. Granted, doing my own roadside flat repair and pressing on regardless can be pretty satisfying. Yes, biking satisfaction is real nice. But it is no way enough.

-P.10 paragraph 3; "In real life, however, one person is not likely to encounter hazards as frequently as I've tossed them out."

I suspect the Mr. Hough does not commute very much in an urban area of 3-6 million people. Rootie notes that some days it is just impossible to rise to the challenge. I should start keeping track in my daily riding notes how many times and why I have to pause and 'suck it up' to leave the garage on the bike. If i am particularly attentive to PM's hazzards, then I am mentally very busy for most of my riding. I suggest that a lot more riders face my conditions than are currently accounted for. Its often worse than Hough's scenarios.

-p.11 paragraph 1. "It includes the core knowledge and skills that a proficient motorcyclist should possess."

I hope that we have some fun delineating the necessary and sufficient knowledge/skills at the very core of our proficiency.

-P.11 paragraph 2; "...I get a lot of feedback from veteren motorcyclists,..."

This here's a chance to give some feed back. Have fun, all y'all.