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Interesting social commentary here...comparing (in his view) the "attitudes" of the European vs. American driver and motorcycles.
How "polite" the Europeans are vs the almost "hostile" attitude of the non -motorcycling driver toward the American motorcycle and motorcyclist.
He states that almost half the traffic (and therefore hotel customers) are motorcyclists. That's great. What he really does not cover are, (IMO) the real reasons for this difference. Maybe I can put them in a list....not neccessarily in order:
1- gas, in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
2- we (Americans) are a nation of highways, arrow straight secondary roads. They (Europeans) are nations of small, twisty roads, with impossible city layouts.
3- gas, in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
4- motorcycles, in Europe have always been a major method of travel. Not so in the U.S..
5- motorcycles,in Europe, has always been a socially responsible method of travel. Not so in the U.S..
6- gas, in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
7- The "standard of living" for the "average" European has not been as high as it has been for the "average" American.
8- Americans, as a group, has mostly always had more "disposable income" than Europeans, as a group.
9-motorcycle travel in Europe is an almost financial neccessity and therefore, everyone does it, has done it, will do it, or has family members who do it, has done it, will do it or has done it.
10-gas, in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
11- motorcycle travel, in the United States has been a 1)luxury, 2)pastime, 3) sport 4) not a necessity.
12- motorcyles and motorcycling in Europe does not raise the ire of the non motorcycling public because it does not have the anti-social bs perpetuated by the movies..and the r-e-t-a-r-d-s (getting around that stupid editor program....)that try to mimic what they see in the movies.
13-I agree with Fred...with his assesment of loud pipes. My time in Europe...I NEVER heard straight pipes. NEVER.
14-gas, in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
15-the clothing worn by European motorcyclists is "non-threatening". Might look odd (the protection padding and such) the full leathers might indicate these guys need diapers...while in the U.S., because motorcycling is a pastime rather than a neccessity, the clothing, while NOT hotile or intimidating in itself...might be so to the non motorcycling public. Black leather, weird-looking bandanas, and of course, the social misfits listed above with the full sleeve and body tattoos...that are mostly nothing more that large black blobs (due to fading and age....)so, the American "defense mode" gets turned on.
16-gas in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
17- bars in Europe are only a block or two apart. Here, in the States...there could be MILES between them.
18- gas, in Europe is probably $10/gallon by now.
19- and don't forget that every 50-80 years, Europe destroys itself with a war...everyone has to restart from scratch.
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I haven't read his article so I don't know what he wrote, but he was telling me that in Europe having a license is a privilege and not a right like it seems to be here. It's much harder to get a license there, and much more expensive, and much easier to lose the privilege. They also make you start out on smaller bikes there and you can graduate to larger ones.
Cherrie
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I agree with virtually everything Jim noted - there just wasn't room to mention all that in a single editorial column.
The lowest price I paid for fuel was in Germany, at about $6.50 per gallon. The highest was in Switzerland, at about $7.75 per gallon.
One interesting item was the proliferation in Europe of the "Smart Cars." These are very small, two-seater automobiles, with two-cylinder motorcycle engines. I understand they get about 50-60 mpg, or as good as most motorcycles, and cost about the same as a bike, also. Unfortunately, they don't meet our DOT crash regs, and can't be sold over here.
Fred
Fred
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| IMO, most things in Europe are better. It seems they love to ride/drive and take pride in it. Usually when someone buys a porshe in Europe it's to use the power and have fun not roll to work to show it off. I would even go so far to say that right now it appears they have more freedoms than Americans as well. Not to mention their women are so much hotter. I'm actually considering moving to Europe in a year or two.
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The Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence or ocean in this case. I lived in England (London) for 3 years and in Germany for 3 years. Got my British driver's license even. It is good until I am 65 without renewal. That's cool. Not like here where you have to go back every 3 or 4 years and get a new one. Not like anything could change, like your eyesight. Lifetime licensing...
I loved it over there. Neat to live in a different culture. Eat new foods. All that.
But I sure missed our grocery stores and our malls and large department stores. Hard to find such places in Europe, or at least it was from 87-93. Missed out big refridgerators, too. Theirs are tiny little things because Europeans have different shopping habits than Amaericans and Canadians.
Loved the old Stuff... castles and historic places. But still missed the wide open spaces of America.
Hotter women? Uh.. OK.. I spose. But give me my Canadian wife any time. Not to start a debate, but we got the bestest looking ladies by far here in the US and Canada.
I wasn't into riding when I lived over there, so I can't really compare. All I know that is there are some great places to ride over here; more than I'll probably ever get a chance to try. And there were plenty of places over there that I would be scared to ride a bike, such as London.
In fact the general consensus about bikers in London was negative. There are messengers riding bikes over there that are really dangerous on London's streets. More than once I almost got run over by them crazy riders when I was hopping off a bus at a bus stop. There is a whole culture over there that started the cafe racers thing. They go racing all over at breakneck speeds going from one bar to another.
No loud pipes? Beg to differ. There is a similar cruiser culture over there. They even have the Harley's to prove it. I came across a huge rally down in London one Sunday afternoon that would easily cpmpare to typical rallies over here.
Sure, there is alot to like about Europe, but we ain't got it so bad here in the USA. I know I missed living here in the US, but I still miss living over there, too.
Godzilla
1985 BMW K100
Godzilla
1985 BMW K100
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As always Fred's column was great. He always gets an emotional response out of me. Most of the time a good one. LOL
Jim, Where do you get your information about the UK standard of living? Standard of living is a subjective thing, but my belief is the upper class in the US has a much better standard of living than else where. I'm not sure about the lower or middle class. I know most people in European countries get like 6 to 8 weeks vacation per year. I have also been told they don't tip much there because the waiters and waitresses are all ready paid a living wage. Also have heard the factory workers all have strong unions and get paid very well. This business model has not hurt BMW any that is for sure.
As for the number of riders and how they are treated in the UK I have a theory. It is very hard to get a motorcycle license in the UK. It is very easy here in the US. Making the license hard to get makes it more desirable and gains respect for the accomplishment. What is there to respect about many US riders beyond they had the money or the credit to get a bike?
Torqueman
Battle Creek, MI
Goldwing 03
Torqueman
Battle Creek, MI
V-Strom 06
Goldwing 03
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the europeans have better mass transit than we do, i have heard. here in chicagoland, we used to have pretty good mass transit that actually took people to jobs.
re: the small economical cars of europe; lots of cagers have been asking me questions about the bike. polution questions, economy questions. i try for concise, polite answers. the ordinary cager has no mindset for anything beyond immediate personal convenience in their travel.
nobody rides half as well as they know how.
nobody rides half as well as they know how.
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quote:
Originally posted by jerseyjim
He states that almost half the traffic (and therefore hotel customers) are motorcyclists.
True, in the switchback moutain passes of the Alps motorcycles are likely to outnumber the autos. That's because the motorcyclists are touring. On regular roads autos outnumber motorcycles. Crossing the Alps auto drivers tend to take the tunnels rather than the passes. It's quicker, shorter distance and uses less fuel. Turning a motorcycle by pressing the handlebars is also way less effort that all that steering wheel work at all those hairpin turns.
quote:
Originally posted by jerseyjim
1- gas, in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
3- gas, in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
6- gas, in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
10-gas, in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
14-gas, in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
16-gas in Europe has been $6/gallon forever.
18- gas, in Europe is probably $10/gallon by now.
Gas in Europe between 2000 and 2002 was typically $1/liter, (about $4.00/gallon). It would seem from the prices Fred paid that the price has risen about the same as it has here.
In addition to cars like the "Smart" you'll find a lot of scooters, and smaller motorcycles as well as diesels cars (about 30% or new car sales), not just because of fuel economy but because they have significantly lower CO2 emissions.
John
Isaac Newton is my co-pilot.
John
Isaac Newton is my co-pilot.
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Yes, they have a much better mass transit system. Most commuters take the 'tube', British Rail and/or the bus system into London to work. Parking and congestion is a nightmare. But you can about anywhere in England on a train.
When I live in Germany, I was in a rural area and there was as much mass transit as there is here in Indiana where I live. Read as NONE.
But us Americans are in love with our cars, so it is no wonder. It is a cultural difference. To change things, we would have to change our culture and I don't see that happening. We are who we are.
We have our giant SUV's, Pick'em up trucks and monster vans. Not so 'over there'. A pickup truck is rare and when you see one, they are tiny little things. The vans are smaller, too. Bigger is better here in the USA. At least that is what we think anyway.
Godzilla
1985 BMW K100
Godzilla
1985 BMW K100
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quote:
Originally posted by jerseyjim
Interesting social commentary here...comparing (in his view) the "attitudes" of the European vs. American driver and motorcycles.
... and don't forget that every 50-80 years, Europe destroys itself with a war...everyone has to restart from scratch.
Fred's commentary resembles usual American "first impression" (and unfortunately sometimes, enduring) judgments about Europe and Europeans. As an American (or "Ami", as many continentals call us, sometimes not too flatteringly...) who lived there some 13 or so years as a civvie and a Euro-licensed driver/biker, I had to overcome my initial biases (and poor driving habits). But it took some time.
A lot of what Fred said is a little off the mark. But it's forgivable since he's just getting his Euro-legs. He didn't deal long-term with the bureacracy, taxes, litigation-happy neighbors (yup, worse even than here) and vehicle inspection system (TueV). He might have even reclaimed his 18 - 24% VAT when he came back.
And a lot of Jersey Jim's comments aren't quite on, either. Gas (real, non-ethanolized and ranging 95-99 octane) is expensive, but with high quality control it's as good as it gets. Is it worth $7/gal? Hell, no, but like in America European gov's. have a needle in their arms. With revenue by the liter, they (and we) can't afford to have you using less!
And unless you're cruising the lands to the south motorcycles, mofas, mopeds, brummers, etc. aren't the norm unless ridden by school-agers without a "real" license. Motorcycles as we know and love 'em are in the minority vs. four-wheelers. They're a luxury. Just check insurance rates. A small car is cheaper to own, by far.
And with graduated licensing and vehicle classes, you pay your dues before you hop on a bike. A dumbed-down week-end MSF course won't cut it. The average German/Dutch/English driver probably spends around $1500 - $2500 to get the classroom and private, one-on-one instruction (with three days of first aid training) and 1-hour road test. And that's just for just the normal license. Add another grand or so for bike classes, training, and the road test with the inspector behind you in his chase car.
As for the decorum on the road, it's partially discipline from good training, but motivated in greater part by stringent laws and fear of punishment. I won't go into detail here, but if you check the RoadRunner magazine forum (roadrunner.com/bb/), I've just netted out some of the legal driving pitfalls for someone considering biking in Germany. What appears to be politeness is really a legally controlled driving environment regulated to the nth degree.
The perceived "lower" standard of living Jim refers to is bogus unless you use the Bush league/Republican version of GDP divided by the number of native heads. But if our standard is so much higher, why do we prize and pay big bucks to experience the "lower" European standard with our meager two-week vacation? Because in reality, meaningful living standards are more universally measured as a much more encompassing "quality of living". And there, by all objective WHO/U.N. measurements, the continentals have it all over us -- better health care, ensured retirement, more free time, nicer environment -- etc. Based on those measures, the U.S. comes up around 7th or 8th and has for almost two decades.
Do they pay for it? You betcha! Through the nose, by our standards. But then, ask yourself: "Why are there so many Europeans flitzing around the world/U.S. and why are they so happy...". Rhetorical. I have a pretty good idea, but you'll have to figure it out for yourself.
And as for wars and rebuilding. Jim has it right, at least historically. The Europeans made the mistakes of conducting their wars on their own turf. Thus far we've exported most of ours and avoided most of the mess. But with the EC and the related, more valuable and stable Euro currency they've become too interdependent to afford war. So WWIII probably won't happen there. Some folks profit by their mistakes...
Cheers!
"Jack S."
I was put here for a purpose: to be a bad example for others not to follow...
Courage is the greatest virtue, as it makes all others possible-- paraphrasing Winnie
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