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New Member
 
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Last Login: 6/6/2008 2:48:55 PM
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Anyone have experience with a Gasoline / Enthanol blend in a motorcycle? The state of New Hampshire, were I live is switching to this from the MTBE Gasoline due to the MTBE's getting into the water supplies. My concen is that though my Vulcan 750 is a 2000 and my father-in-laws 2001 are based on 1985 technology and it may not be up to snuff to handle the fuel. I'm thinking that fuel lines, carbs, etc. will have problems. I appreciate any thoughts you guys have on this.
Thanks
Save gas and drive;
A Subaru in the winter
A Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Spring, Summer, and Fall. :)
Started Riding in 2002
^.v.^
Save gas and drive;
A Subaru in the winter
A Suzuki V-Strom 650 Spring, Summer, and Fall. :)
Retired/Traded 2000 Vulcan 750 (First Bike)
Started Riding in 2003
^.v.^
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Average Member
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Last Login: 6/17/2009 8:39:37 AM
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Take a look in your owner's manual. Mine has recommendations for use of "oxygenated fuels," those blended with alcohol or an ether compound.
My manual also contains the following warning:
Fuel system damage or performance problems resulting from the use of oxygenated fuel containing more than the percentages of oxygenates mentioned above [in the manual] are not covered under warranty.
Curt
'03 VFR
Curt
'03 VFR
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New Member
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redscoot,
Thanks, I'll give it a look, when I get to the bike. The bike is in storage for the winter at the in-laws. I have a clymer manual and I'll check there or go to the Kawasaki website to see if I can access the manual there. I might have run across the border in to Mass. to get "good gas". :)
Save gas and drive;
A Subaru in the winter
A Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Spring, Summer, and Fall. :)
Started Riding in 2002
^.v.^
Save gas and drive;
A Subaru in the winter
A Suzuki V-Strom 650 Spring, Summer, and Fall. :)
Retired/Traded 2000 Vulcan 750 (First Bike)
Started Riding in 2003
^.v.^
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Senior Member
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Last Login: 7/6/2008 10:52:54 AM
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Great question. I've been curious about the commercials for GM cars that can run on conventional fuel and alcohol blends up to 85%.
Here are some links to read...
http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/fuelquality/publications/review-non-automotive/engine-durability.html (Australian)
http://www.autoindustries.com.au/ethanol.php/2005/11/00000005.html (also Australian, but lists manufacturer comments on 10% ethanol which don't bode well for motorcycles)
This should be of interest to many. I believe Valero is looking to substitute alcohol for MTBE. BTW, MTBE should have never been allowed in as it is probably worse than lead as fuel additives go.
Dirt bike forum in need of members (free)
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Junior Member
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Last Login: 6/28/2009 7:46:53 AM
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We've been using ethanol at 10 - 15% concentrations for at least 6 years here in MN. We grow lots of corn so it's a state industry, so to speak.
While the energy level is lower than gasoline and mileage is negatively affected, it doesn't seem to do any harm. Where I usually get 42-43 MPG on ethanol mix I was up to over 49 MPG in Canada last summer on non-ethanol fuels. That makes sense to me as ethanol contains about 55% of the energy per pound of fuel compared to gasoline. Being quite volatile it seems to minimize pinging, sort of like premium gas.
It is heavier than gasoline and settles to the bottom of the tank over the winter. That makes it difficult to get the bike started in the spring unless you shake the bike back and forth quite a bit to mix it uop before turning on the petcock and starting it up for the first time.
It MAY also contribute to rust in the tank as it absorbs moisture over time. You can minimize that by having the tank full during storage.
I use Sta-Bil for winter storage and it seems to help, although I doubt it has any affect on the ethanol mix in the tank. Rather it seems to minimize formation of varnish like compounds that clog jets, especially the small idle circuit ones.
In the early days of oxygenated gasoline, methanol was used with bad results. It causes deterioration of gaskets and other soft parts in the carbs. Used with co-solvents like acetone or methyl-ethyl-ketone it isn't so bad, but that adds to the cost and wasn't often used to prevent damage. Ethanol doesn't seem to cause any negative effects on gaskets, needles and seats and other sensitive carb parts, at least in my experience.
Gonpher Coughie.
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rnielsen
Thanks for the detailed insight. It pretty much confirms what I thought after reading the NH State Enviromental Deparment site. I'll make sure to mention the Stabil to the Father-in-law, as well as giving the bikes a couple of big shakes next Spring. One could always drain the tanks and put a fresher mixture in, but that won't help with the stuff in the bowls of the carbs.
Good Excuse for me to get a FI Triumph ST ABS 
Save gas and drive;
A Subaru in the winter
A Kawasaki Vulcan 750 Spring, Summer, and Fall. :)
Started Riding in 2002
^.v.^
Save gas and drive;
A Subaru in the winter
A Suzuki V-Strom 650 Spring, Summer, and Fall. :)
Retired/Traded 2000 Vulcan 750 (First Bike)
Started Riding in 2003
^.v.^
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Junior Member
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Last Login: 6/24/2009 12:45:23 PM
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I have been using ethanol blend(10%) since 1983 in my motorcycles, and longer than that in cars. I have never had any trouble, and have never bothered to shake the bike before I started it after it sat for a while (months, somtimes). I have never seen any signs of damage to anything, either. When they first started selling gasahol, as it was then called, there were cautions that the alcohol might dissolve deposits in the tank or fuel lines, especially on older vehicles, and that those deposits might make their way to the fuel filter. Didn't happen to me, at least. I have had two vehicles on which I noticed a performance difference. One was a 1979 Lincoln with a 6.6 liter engine. It ran better on ethanol, mostly because the higher octane stopped it pinging. The other was a 1980 Mazda GLC. In summer, with ethanol, the Mazda would be hard to start when hot, possibly because the alcohol boiled in the carb. But regular gas would "diesel" when I shut off the car in hot weather.
Ethanol contains about 70% of the energy of gasoline per gallon, as far as I know. A mix of 10% ethanol and 90% gas would, therefore, have about 97% of the energy per gallon and should result in a loss of mileage of about 3%, if both fuels burned equally efficiently. This is a change of about 1 mpg if you are operating near 30 mpg, and you would have to keep very careful records to detect it, given the propensity we have for filling the car "to the nearest dollar" instead of quitting when the nozzle shuts off. Of course, driving conditions are never equal, either, with weather changes and traffic changes. For all practical purposes, I have never been able to reliably detect a mpg difference in anything I drive.
There are a few stations here selling E85, which is 85% ethanol and 15% gas. The fuel costs less, but the mileage is also less. I do not have specifics on the mileage loss, but from published reports it seems to me that the cost per mile for fuel increases.
Tracers work both ways.
Predictions are very difficult, especially about the future.
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Starting Member
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We have had ethanol here for several years and it seems fine as long as you keep burning it thru. Ethanol does seem to "go bad" faster then ordinary gas, even with fuel preservative added, I had problems with my carbs after about 3.5 months of storage even though I "stored it properly"
it also seems to make your engine run slightly hotter but I cannot prove that
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Junior Member
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My experience with ethanol laced gasoline shows a reduction in mileage of about 10% or even more compared to non-oxygenated gasoline.
The energy content of ethanol is about 55% compared to gasline but that's not the whole picture. With modern cars and some motorcycles, the exhaust oxygen content is monitored with an exhaust gas sensor.
Using an oxygenated fuel the oxygen content of the exhause is higher. The computer for the fuel injectors attempts to correct for this by widening the fuel injector pulse to give more fuel to the engine, hence a slightly richer mixture. With my two most recent cars, both fuel injected and computer controlled, the reduction in gas mileage approaches 15 to 20%, while for the motorcycle (carbureted) the difference is less, maybe 10 to 12%.
Some places in Minneapolis carry non-oxygenated gas, but at a premium price over $3.00 a gallon. I've only tried it once, but the increase in gas mileage was almost 20% on the Suzuki Bandit 1200 in mixed city/country driving.
Just my observations.
Gonpher Coughie.
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Junior Member
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Three of the cars in which I have burned ethanol blended fuel (nominally 10% ethanol, according to the pump stickers) have been fuel-injected. One was a 1989 Lincoln Town car, and the two I still have are a 1994 Pontiac Sunbird with a 2.0 liter engine and a 2001 Crown Victoria with 4.6 liter. On none of the three could I ever measure a difference in fuel mileage that I could definitely ascribe to the ethanol. All three showed variances in mileage (note: I keep a little notebook in each one, and record all fuel purchased) but the variances could almost always be ascribed to such things as high-speed driving on trips, in-town driving, bad weather, and the like. The habit of "topping-off" the tank makes quite a difference, too, in tank-to-tank variations. If the nozzle quits with xx.03, you fill to 97 cents more, nearly a half-gallon. If it quits on xx.97, you only put 3 cents more in to round to the nearest dollar. FWIW, I recorded mileage for over 100000 miles on the Town Car before we sold it, about 40000 on the Crown Victoria, and 45000 on the Sunbird. The first vehicle in which I used ethanol was a 1973 Dodge pickup, 318 engine, carbureted. I couldn't measure any difference in mileage on that, either, though I left the little notebook in the truck when I traded it. By the way, even if ethanol had zero energy, the mix of 10% ethanol with 90% gasoline would still have 90% of the energy it had to start with, so the mileage penalty would be about 10%. That's easier to measure, but is still the difference between 30 mpg and 27 mpg, which would require fairly careful measurements.
Tracers work both ways.
Predictions are very difficult, especially about the future.
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