Motorcycle Consumer News - MCNews.com - The most complete, most detailed and most accurate information about every aspect of motorcycling.
Meet the Staff Home Community Magazine Shopping Resources Contact Us
Motorcycle Consumer News
Rules-Read First    Home       Members    Calendar    Who's On
Welcome Guest ( Login | Register )
        

Home » Motorcycle Consumer News » Safety and Legislative Issues » The Magnificent Hough Thread

12»»

The Magnificent Hough Thread Expand / Collapse
Author
Message
Posted 6/5/2008 6:34:15 PM
Senior Member

Senior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior Member

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 10:45:56 AM
Posts: 1,739, Visits: 2,318
DataDan (6/2/2008)[hr ...I do hope you'll post some of your disagreements with Hough. Not because I find a lot to disagree with, but just to stoke some discussion in this otherwise somnolent forum.

Thus goaded from another thread, I rise from my slumbers to see if anyone is willing to critique, apologise, or rhapsodize over the the premier street riding safety tome of our times. I mean no disrespect toward Mr. Hough. Indeed, I would be honored if he made an appearence at this thread because something caught his interest.

I will be refering to the original book. If others are using a later edition, please make that clear. It is understood that all quotes will be from the original. To keep quotes to a minimum length, maybe include a page number. The page number can be used to read the wider context at home or work as necessary. Forum participants are highly encouraged to particpate as best as they can. The book is not mandatory to the fun of honorable discourse laced with humor. zzzzz Uh?! Sorry, nodded off there for a bit.

Sources other than Mr Hough ought to be about something found in PM.  It would amaze me if someone found a quote from Mr. Rau that contradicted Mr. Hough's PM.  Lets try to stay on target. Thread drift occurs. We can drift back if we want.

My regets for my ham-fisted typing and fuzzy thinking.

Here is some stuff to get us started:

I blew off the preface because it was history and in my convenience to do so. If someone finds a point of interest there, they should bring it up.

-P.10 end of first paragraph, "In my opinion, it is possible to reduce the risks of motorcycling to an acceptable level."

In my opinion, the key word is 'acceptable'. Depending on my skill level for conditions, many risks are no-way acceptable to me. Just because I do everything possible to minimize risk short of not riding doesnt mean that the risk becomes acceptable.

Note that there is no reference to a person who is accepting biker risks. There are a lot of people who would not like to accept biker risk at any level. Parents and spouses as well as civic minded and meddling fools.

-P.10 end of paragraph 2; "The big payoff is that becoming a proficient motorcyclist is immensely satisfying."

Immensely satisfying is nice but falls way short of my desires. Immensely satisfying would be actually having my garage cleaned out. A task so onerous as to make the Labors of Hercules pale to insignificance. Despite the Rolling Stones quest for satisfaction, immensely satisfying just doesnt cut it. When on my bike, I am searching for a moment of joy. I want to be exillerated while riding. Granted, doing my own roadside flat repair and pressing on regardless can be pretty satisfying. Yes, biking satisfaction is real nice. But it is no way enough.

-P.10 paragraph 3; "In real life, however, one person is not likely to encounter hazards as frequently as I've tossed them out."

I suspect the Mr. Hough does not commute very much in an urban area of 3-6 million people. Rootie notes that some days it is just impossible to rise to the challenge. I should start keeping track in my daily riding notes how many times and why I have to pause and 'suck it up' to leave the garage on the bike. If i am particularly attentive to PM's hazzards, then I am mentally very busy for most of my riding. I suggest that a lot more riders face my conditions than are currently accounted for. Its often worse than Hough's scenarios.

-p.11 paragraph 1. "It includes the core knowledge and skills that a proficient motorcyclist should possess."

I hope that we have some fun delineating the necessary and sufficient knowledge/skills at the very core of our proficiency.

-P.11 paragraph 2; "...I get a lot of feedback from veteren motorcyclists,..."

This here's a chance to give some feed back. Have fun, all y'all.

nobody rides half as well as they know how.

Post #30967
Posted 6/10/2008 6:27:36 PM
Senior Member

Senior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior Member

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 10:45:56 AM
Posts: 1,739, Visits: 2,318
Just as I suspected. Nobody is going for this thread. The sacred cow remains untouched. I am gratified that the thread got a few visits.

There is a quiz on page 28/29. It is supposed to help the reader/rider descern how much risk exposure is prevalent. I re-examined myself today and scored myself as brutally as possible less I fool myself more than usual. Plato wrote, "The unexamined life is not worth living." My corrolary is, "The examined life may not be much better."

I scored a 68.  (+80 is better. -40 is...marginal? Too dangerous?)

Earlier (p.22, par 4) "After all, part of the thrill of motorcycling is challenging the odds." I am glad that 'thrill' is now in play. On my way to achieving some sort of  Motorcycling Joy, thrill is better than satisfaction. If I am fortunate, 'satisfaction' is what remains after the 'thrill' is gone.

Anybody have reservations about 'odds'? Indiana Jones as well as other characters has remarked, "Never tell me the odds." As I face my riding scenario, I am not figuring 'odds'. Its more of a feeler gauge thing. It feels like I am making a "Go/No Go" judgement. Digitally, it would be expressed as 1/0? Odds are what is calculated after the collection of data. Judgement is what is used to decide an immediate course of action during the ride. The odds that I will negotiate edge traps are pretty good given past data. My judgement about negotiating today's particular edge trap is based on Yoda's, "Do, or not do. there is no try." ( Pardon the heavy use of declaritive sentences. Everything is up for discussion. Each sentence can be attacked more easily if it is short and to the point.)

nobody rides half as well as they know how.

Post #31032
Posted 6/11/2008 8:11:45 AM
Starting Member

Starting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting Member

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 9/5/2008 10:10:16 AM
Posts: 5, Visits: 14
Perhaps nobody is biting because it's not possible to debate opinions? Most of these particular statements from PM are subjective in nature ('acceptable','joy','likely'..etc).

This looks like a statement of fact:

p.11 paragraph 1. "It includes the core knowledge and skills that a proficient motorcyclist should possess."


I don't think it is. 'core' and 'proficient' are not defined in solid enough terms to make this a statement of fact (I believe).

I'm not sure where you expect this thread to go. The above quote could be 'tackled' if first it's terms are more clearly defined. That would perhaps be a place to start.

I have no blind trust in any authority, so if you've disagreed with anything stated as fact in PM... I'd love to discuss that. Not sure that going after any of the quotes in your first posting would be productive though.

My copy of PM is out on loan for now, so I can't take the test again ;-)

Meum scapha volitare plenum anguillae
Post #31038
Posted 6/11/2008 12:21:37 PM
Senior Member

Senior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior Member

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 10:45:56 AM
Posts: 1,739, Visits: 2,318
Welcome to the forum, braindead0.

I am honored that your first post was to this thread. (Deep bow here) Thanx.

ALL:

I find PM littered with opinions. Some of them ring true with my own experience. Some of them are more dischordant. Forum participants are invited to list their own observations regarding anything in PM.

Is the best part of biking, the reward of biking, "immense satisfaction"? It isnt for me. And there are no other posts to give a better perspective.

Maybe the best part of biking is the small carbon footprint and the moral high ground of the fuel sipping tiddlers?

Hough does use the word, "Joys" in the preface. I was hoping someone would catch my glaring 'error'. And we could discuss the importance of joy in motorcycling. It would interesting to note if 'joy' ever comes up in the book thereafter? 

I dont like trusting any authority either. Yet Hough has complete faith that the Hurt Report is accurate to his needs. I remind all that Genesis and Leviticus were the best available at that time. Hough lets a Road Rider Survey (p.27) lend some support to his opinions. Fortunately, DataDan has a nice collection of studies that dont deviate from Hurt very much. I think that I have to let Hurt go untouched for the purposes of this thread.

PM is on the line here. Feel free to gush and quote the best parts. And moan about the worst of the warts. Wisteria at the rest is fine with me. I note that there are very few sig lines on motorcycle forums quoting PM.

nobody rides half as well as they know how.

Post #31044
Posted 6/12/2008 8:11:21 AM
Starting Member

Starting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting Member

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 9/5/2008 10:10:16 AM
Posts: 5, Visits: 14
Perhaps PM has too much opinion for the experienced rider. I still recommend it to everyone, and I learned about a few things that I did unconsciously (for example, using power poles/lines to help judge a curve over a hill). My wife took the BRC last week, and I found more problems with that than any of the opinions on PM.

I think I'll have to read it again before I can add anything useful to this thread. It's been at least a year.

Meum scapha volitare plenum anguillae
Post #31057
Posted 6/12/2008 12:47:36 PM
Senior Member

Senior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior MemberSenior Member

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: Today @ 10:45:56 AM
Posts: 1,739, Visits: 2,318
OK. Here is one that is not so opinionated.

Page 35; "Brake pads get hard with age."

I never heard of that happeneing.  My guess is that its a momentary example of poor phrasing. Brake pads will glaze on occasion. The glaze is hard to wear through. It is better to remove glazed pads and scuff the glaze off. The glaze prevents good friction. Pads will perform better if they are not glazed. Anybody glaze a set of pads recently?

New brake material, pads and shoes, take about 250 urban miles to mate with rotors and drums. Hard break-in usage on new pads might glaze 'em.

I cant imagine brake pads getting significantly harder just sitting in the garage? (EDIT; I just went out to ther garage and took a rasp to an old brake pad. the rasp seemed to cut just fine. A hack saw cut into the old pad just about like a new one. If the pad was work hardened, it didnt feel much different. Who knows what PM means?)

Normally, I would let such trivia slide by while looking for bigger problems. But, if this kind  of stuff is what it takes to get the ball rolling here...   Maybe something will come up later in the book. Anybody drag out their copy for a re-read just for this thread?

Thanx, braindead0, for the input. I note that the visits jumped up since you got here.  The BRC used to be pretty good long ago. It got dumbed down a bit after 1885. My congratz to the Missus. I hope she gets the hots for bikes because of the immense satisfaction of completing the BRC.

nobody rides half as well as they know how.

Post #31060
Posted 6/12/2008 1:55:01 PM
Starting Member

Starting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting MemberStarting Member